ideals

Ideals (理想) Thread Archive

1. What specific claims did Seth make about this concept? How many times, in which books, and did the wording change over time?

Early Claims (1969s)

• Ideals are built-in protective mechanisms, survival mechanisms that warn of danger, like psychological landmarks noting "beware," allowing humans freedom within limits ([early-sessions-9 §446]).
• Ideals direct the human race toward beneficial directions; thoughts and emotions are the foundation, and individuals learn by seeing them materialize into physical reality ([early-sessions-9 §446]).
• Ideals are like instructions on a blackboard that cannot be erased; until the lesson is learned, ideals are the only guide; only after learning does one realize ideals were not necessary ([early-sessions-9 §446]).
• Ideals are shadow-like translations of truth, rules comprehensible to humans; violating ideals invites madness, and only ideals give the system rationality ([early-sessions-9 §446]).
• Ideals themselves originate in the dream state and are subsequently translated into practically usable physical terms ([early-sessions-9 §446]).
• When ideals are spoken of but not believed, individual and group guilt grows due to the gap between ideals and behavior ([early-sessions-8 §414]).
• Ideals are highly important and vital; unrecognized hatred and aggression manifest through the sacrifice of ideal-bearing figures, serving as a yardstick for measuring progress and revealing failure ([early-sessions-8 §414]).

Later Claims (1970s)

• The developmental blueprints of ideals exist in the storehouse of genetic knowledge, providing humanity with various pathways of fulfillment; these blueprints exist in the psyche as ideals and express themselves through individual impulses and creativity ([mass-events §870]).
• Whatever ideals may be, they initially emerge from inner experience; concepts of society and cooperation derive from biological and spiritual knowledge bestowed at birth ([mass-events §870]).
• Idealism is deeply rooted spiritually and physiologically; individuals can change undesirable circumstances by accepting their own legitimacy, discarding worthless thoughts, and trusting their impulses ([mass-events §870]).
• Idealism takes multiple forms, sometimes difficult to recognize—idealism may hide beneath a pessimistic or cynical exterior, while those who outwardly praise ideals may inwardly be filled with pessimism and despair ([mass-events §850]).

2. What mechanism did he propose?

• Ideals are individual protection, built-in survival mechanisms warning of danger, like invisible fences or psychological signs reading "beware," allowing humans freedom within limits [early-sessions-9 §446].
• Ideals direct the race toward beneficial directions; thoughts and emotions constitute their foundation, and individuals learn by seeing ideals transformed into physical reality [early-sessions-9 §446].
• Ideals are like instructions on a blackboard that cannot be erased; until the lesson is learned, they are the only guideline, and once truly learned, one realizes ideals were never actually necessary [early-sessions-9 §446].
• Ideals are individual translations of truth, the rules of the game; violating ideals within the system invites madness, and without ideals the system itself appears mad [early-sessions-9 §446].
• Ideals originate in the dream state and are translated from there into practically feasible physical terms; even while immersed in physical reality, the individual is to some degree detached from it [early-sessions-9 §446].
• The "developmental blueprints" of ideals exist in the genetic knowledge bank, providing diverse pathways of fulfillment for the species as ideal forms, expressed through individual impulses and creativity [mass-events §870].
• Whatever an individual's ideals may be, they initially arise from inner experience; this principle applies to the species as a whole; concepts of society and cooperation derive from biological and spiritual knowledge given at birth [mass-events §870].
• Ideals that are merely verbally proclaimed but not genuinely believed generate guilt in individuals and collectives over the gap between ideals and behavior; ideals become the yardstick measuring progress and failure [early-sessions-8 §414].
• If ideals are too vague and unrealistic, and the individual feels powerless, one falls into difficulty; ideals need to be connected with concrete practical plans [mass-events §850].

3. Are there observable inferences or explicit predictions (including time, quantity, conditions)?

• Ideals are built-in survival protection mechanisms that can warn of danger and direct the race toward beneficial directions [early-sessions-9 §446].
• Ideals are like "instructions" written on a blackboard that cannot be erased; they are the only guideline to follow until you learn the lesson; after learning, you will realize ideals were never actually necessary [early-sessions-9 §446].
• The blueprints of ideals exist in the storehouse of genetic knowledge, existing as ideals at the psychic level, expressed through individual impulses and creativity [mass-events §870].
• There are concretely quantified observational examples: the men's one-mile running speed was approximately 12 seconds faster than about thirty years earlier, when the record stood at 3 minutes 49 seconds; Seth explicitly stated the body could run faster than the current record [mass-events §870]. He also noted that this speed increase was not due to sudden enhancement of bodily function, but rather to changes in beliefs about bodily performance [mass-events §870].
• There is an operationally observable inference: when you remind yourself of the body's capacity for self-healing for harmless but bothersome chronic symptoms such as headaches, stomach discomfort, sinus discomfort, or hay fever, and practice meditation and belongingness exercises, such headaches "can often be immediately alleviated"—though no exact duration or success rate is given [mass-events §870].
• Regarding law: law is "a reflection of the individual's pursuit of ideals and their implementation"; impulses provide details, methods, and meaning, pointing toward clear avenues of expression and automatically providing feedback so that individuals know they have produced good effects on their environment [mass-events §860].
• At the level of specific historical events, there is a series of explicit predictions: in the session of June 5, 1968, shortly before 2:00 AM (the night before), Seth said (session §414) that Senator Kennedy (referring to Robert Kennedy, then a presidential candidate) would die; the senator was indeed assassinated the following morning at nearly 5:00 AM (Eastern Time) [early-sessions-8 §414]. Seth further predicted: "Another tragedy will occur, either closely connected with this present situation and those involved, or involving another member of the Kennedy family"; and stated that President Johnson might have difficulties in health, especially the heart; Humphrey would receive the nomination, and Percy would play a role in the convention or the new administration [early-sessions-8 §414]. (Note: these predictions are primarily related to the enormous psychological gap caused by ideals being "voiced but not practiced," and the function of ideals as "the yardstick for measuring progress and the measure for seeing failure" [early-sessions-8 §414].)
• Concerning collective effects triggered by ideals, Seth pointed out: when national ideals are given lip service without serious effort toward implementation, the gap between ideals and behavior produces individual and collective guilt, forming a schizoid social state; at such times, certain figures symbolizing ideals (such as Dr. King and the Kennedy brothers) become "containers" or "channels" through whose sacrifice the inner denied hatred and aggressiveness are channeled outward, enabling the collective to see the root of the illness [early-sessions-8 §414]. Without these events, the nation might "launch a disastrous war" [early-sessions-8 §414].
• The time frame of these predictions: the ongoing political situation of 1968 (Johnson, Humphrey, Percy, the Kennedy family), and the specific death event of June 5 of that year; also the running record comparison spanning "thirty years" [mass-events §870] [early-sessions-8 §414].

4. Where did he say contemporary science was wrong, and in what direction should it look?

Science has an entire direction in which it must turn: it must set aside the old notion that "external events are destiny" and instead learn the law that "individual beliefs create individual reality," and must confront the existence and influence of the "inner self" [mass-events §850]. Science must develop a domain that can accommodate "self-knowledge," not merely "knowledge of the environment"; otherwise no discipline can penetrate to the core of human behavior and experience [mass-events §850].

In science's concrete practice, its fatal flaw lies in "methods inadequate to intentions"—the methods are so disconnected from science's primary purpose that the methods themselves constitute an unrecognized, insidious anti-scientific attitude [mass-events §868]. When science resorts to any means for "better" results, it departs from its proper purpose; any field (including science) that truly wishes to serve an ideal must make every action conform to that ideal itself [mass-events §868].

5. What experiments or exercises did he suggest? What did Jane and Rob actually do and observe at the time?

• Seth suggested regular meetings, for example twice weekly, scheduled for 9:00 PM, and encouraged them to try various experiments on their own, calling them "homework," believing this approach could train abilities [early-sessions-1 §12].
• Jane and Rob conducted an experiment on the night of January 4, 1964: they drew the curtains, lit only a red Christmas light, covered the table with black cloth, placed Jane's wedding ring upon it, sat facing each other with hands on the cloth, meditating for about an hour, during which Jane observed that her hands and a metal emblem sometimes seemed to disappear [early-sessions-1 §12].
• Seth also suggested regular practice with a pendulum, and both Jane and Rob diligently worked with the pendulum on a regular basis [early-sessions-4 §153].
• Seth stated elsewhere that in his absence, they could conduct small-scale experiments on their own [early-sessions-2 §80].
• Jane and Rob attempted "psychological time" experiments, suspended from August 12, but the attempt that evening was unsuccessful; however, during the experiment Rob felt a familiar wave of excitement pass through his entire body [early-sessions-2 §80].
• Rob also conducted an expectation-based experiment: while driving back, he suggested to his subconscious that fuel consumption would be reduced, and felt that at least two quarts of oil had been saved; gas station attendants along the way repeatedly told him no oil was needed [early-sessions-2 §80].
• In session 125, Seth suggested an experiment with four people seated around a coffee table holding hands; Jane and Rob did this with friends, but during the experiment Jane suddenly spoke as Seth rather than communicating with other entities as expected; Seth later noted that this method was not good if one did not wish to contact him, because Jane had been conditioned [early-sessions-3 §129].

6. Supplementary or contradictory points from other concepts in the corpus related to this concept?

The blueprints of ideals exist in the storehouse of genetic knowledge, existing as "ideals" within the psyche, expressing themselves through impulses and creativity [mass-events §870]; these ideals initially emerge from inner experience, applicable to humanity as a whole [mass-events §870]. Beliefs interact with impulses and often corrode the natural spontaneity that impulses provide [mass-events §870].

When ideals cannot be attained in practice, a spiritual hypocrisy results: ideals are spoken aloud but not believed, and individual and collective guilt grows due to the gap between ideals and behavior [early-sessions-8 §414]. Focusing on the chasm between ideals and experience until that chasm becomes the only reality makes one an enemy of oneself and of one's kind [mass-events §835].

In pursuing ideals, the belief that any means can be justified is the root of the unfortunate conditions in science, medicine, or religion [mass-events §868]; the end does not justify the means, and therefore there is a new commandment: "Thou shalt not kill, even in the pursuit of thy ideals" [mass-events §850]. The fanatic feels justified precisely because they believe any action can be permitted to achieve an ideal [mass-events §868].

Ideals must be expressed through action: actively expressing your idealism increases your sense of value and power, and avoids overemphasizing the gap between reality and ideals [mass-events §870]; begin by changing your own life, rather than waiting for heroic or grand gestures [mass-events §870].

Ideals themselves are protective mechanisms, built-in survival mechanisms warning of danger, like impassable fences, and rules of the game that must be obeyed, otherwise one tends toward madness [early-sessions-9 §446]; these ideals originate from the dream state and are then translated into physically practical terms [early-sessions-9 §446]. As you go through reincarnational cycles in value fulfillment, there is spiritual growth comparable to growing from fetus to adult [early-sessions-9 §446].

Idealism presupposes the opposition of "good" and "evil," but the pursuit of "good" often leads to the manifestation of "evil," because people believe the end justifies the means [mass-events §850]; when you engage in black-and-white thinking, you treat ideals in a cavalier manner, and every action that does not conform to the ideal begins to dissolve the core of the ideal [mass-events §868].

7. Questions that have not yet been asked

1. Regarding the assertion that "ideals originate from the dream state," could sleep deprivation and dream recording experiments be designed to compare differences in ideal-related belief strength across different REM stages?
2. Seth proposed that ideal blueprints exist in the genetic bank—could population genetics analysis be used to compare the genetic associations of idealistic tendencies across different cultural backgrounds?
3. Regarding the guilt produced by the gap between ideals and behavior, could questionnaires be designed to measure the correlation between ideal implementation and cortisol levels or prefrontal activation patterns?
4. Seth predicted that running record improvements stem from belief changes—could sport psychology self-efficacy interventions be used to verify the effect of belief adjustment on maximal oxygen uptake performance?
5. As an internal protective mechanism, could ideals be measured through threat-situation experiments examining the relationship between individual ideal firmness and threat assessment (such as heart rate variability)?

Appendix: Claim List (for Stage C)

id	Claim	Type	Source
ideals-1	Ideals are built-in survival protection mechanisms, like psychological landmarks, warning of danger, allowing humans freedom within limits.	Ontological assertion	early-sessions-9 §446
ideals-2	Ideals are shadow-like translations of truth, rules comprehensible to humans; violating ideals invites madness.	Ontological assertion	early-sessions-9 §446
ideals-3	Ideals are like instructions on a blackboard; before the lesson is learned they are the only guide; after learning, one realizes ideals were not necessary.	Mechanism description	early-sessions-9 §446
ideals-4	Ideals originate in the dream state and are subsequently translated into practically usable physical terms.	Mechanism description	early-sessions-9 §446
ideals-5	When ideals are spoken of but not believed, individual and group guilt grows due to the gap between ideals and behavior; ideals become the yardstick measuring progress and failure.	Mechanism description	early-sessions-8 §414
ideals-6	Unrecognized hatred and aggression manifest through the sacrifice of ideal-bearing figures as a yardstick for measuring progress and revealing failure.	Mechanism description	early-sessions-8 §414
ideals-7	The developmental blueprints of ideals exist in the storehouse of genetic knowledge, existing in the psyche as ideals, expressed through individual impulses and creativity.	Ontological assertion	mass-events §870
ideals-8	All ideals initially emerge from inner experience; concepts of society and cooperation derive from biological and spiritual knowledge given at birth.	Ontological assertion	mass-events §870
ideals-9	Idealism is deeply rooted spiritually and physiologically; individuals can change undesirable circumstances by accepting their own legitimacy, discarding worthless thoughts, and trusting their impulses.	Mechanism description	mass-events §870
ideals-10	Idealism takes multiple forms; idealism may hide beneath a pessimistic or cynical exterior, while those who outwardly praise ideals may inwardly be filled with pessimism and despair.	Ontological assertion	mass-events §850
ideals-11	In pursuing ideals, the end cannot justify the means; therefore there is a new commandment: "Thou shalt not kill, even in the pursuit of thy ideals."	Methodological recommendation	mass-events §850
ideals-12	Ideals must be expressed through action; actively expressing idealism increases one's sense of value and power and avoids overemphasizing the gap between reality and ideals.	Methodological recommendation	mass-events §870